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Post by Mash on May 2, 2011 17:37:00 GMT
I said I would wait till the full time whistle to give a no holds barred account of the season/players/mgmt and after that shocker/disgrace today it now feels right to let rip.
The Management Team
Despite what some say on here, whether you want Bird out or not, he wont be going anywhere so people need to get over that. I've always been of the opinion that a manager should be allowed to build his own team, he will get that chance in the summer and I will judge him on that (nothing more/nothing less). He has till about Oct/Nov to prove that his own team/players not being tied with Goldberg contracts and players to prove he deserves the job. If we are out the cup and doing badly around October by all means move him on. He should hold his hands up and admit the second half of the season has been shocking but I feel the club should release the details of the probs behind the scenes so that the more irrational of our fanbase realise we had to let players like Vines go, that players refused to leave the club etc.....
As has also been said before we arent getting any proven manager in, because we've never done that so....
Chairman/Manager
My advice to both Jerry and Hayden is to avoid handing out contracts to any players next season, we've seen in 4 seasons now what it leads to....uncommitted players happy to pick up wages for limited effort. Its not worth the hassle it creates. The only players who deserve contracts are players with a sell on potential (ie young players)
Players who need to go
Finn - played well for 3 months then the sun went in and his bad attitude came out, he has offered us absolutely nothing since December and stunk the place out with his poor atttitude. Good riddance to him. Put on a good contract by Goldberg and he took the piss..
Mcbean - Warren is the third highest goalscorer in the conf south (history) and players like him aren't easily accessible, he has been under constant criticism in the last two seasons for not working hard enough etc etc and I defended him as much as I could. This season however, I'm done with him. For me Warren is your stereotypical needs a hand round shoulder player who wants to be the main man. The problem that creates is that you get clubs bending over backwards for players like that who when they then take the piss expect clubs to pander to it. This season Warren has mentally not been there (maybe its because he never expected to be here - trial with Stevenage et al) but either way hes another who has let the club down and its for the best if we now part ways
Daly - was key to the solid performances at the start of the season, but as the season has gone on for me he slows play down too much and doesnt give us enough forward momentum. While I dont think hes been terrible I dont believe hes what we need to move forward next year.
Holloway - He is another to take the piss this season, foolishly put on a contract then has been "injured" the majority of the season. Goodbye Craig
Ide - This is a genuine Bird mistake, should never have been bought in cos he isnt good enough, not just because of his lack of goals but his allround play just isnt of this level. Has to go..
England - Same as above, I can only hope these 2 were bought in because we needed extra bodies as our squad was so thin in numbers (obv he doesnt help in the quality stakes). Please go
The rest have probably done enough to be given a go next season but as I said in the programme the spine of the team will need to be sorted
a) a good non-injury prone keeper b) A leader at the back c) a leader with quality in the middle of the park d) a goalscorer who doesnt have to be pandered to all season...
Problem is everyone wants the above....
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rich
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Post by rich on May 2, 2011 18:04:26 GMT
Me and my son went to the game today with the mindset of having a good Bank Hol afternoon out in the sunshine with no expectations as regards result (just as well) - well done to Dartford who were far and away the better team. Was really glad that the Bromley faithful were making some noise in the first half, it's been a while. In fact the only downer on the day for me was that the refreshments hut had run out of teabags at half-time - I really wasn't bothered about the result - maybe I've just run out of steam with football (two whole seasons joined by that dire world cup together with the recent depressing Real Madrid v Barca debacle - 90 mins of cheating and arguing with the ref from "two of the best teams in Europe", etc etc)
Thank f**k that was the last game of the season today - if you offered me a year away from football at this point in time I'd bite your hand off, but will no doubt bounce back after the summer as one always does. I am glad we're still in Dartford's league - a great away game and the best ground in BSS bar none - just make sure you restock on PG tips pronto.
Have a great summer one and all
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neale
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Post by neale on May 2, 2011 18:08:50 GMT
Whilst I agree with contracts being an issue this season, a lot of people have been pointing at player turnover being a big issue this season. Won't having key players (that Finn and McBean should have been) on a non contract basis make team stability even worse? Just seems like BFC are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. Would you really want Sobers on a non contract basis?
Is the issue more to do with judging who is suited to (attitude and commitment) being on contract? Just thinking aloud...
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Post by Mash on May 2, 2011 18:14:16 GMT
True Neale, but its all about doing research beforehand. Thats where we went wrong on Finn. Previous clubs have all said the same thing about him!!!
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Post by exiled on May 2, 2011 19:17:51 GMT
Neale - the only players who should be on contracts are those you can sell on - Harrison Dunk being the only example in our current squad. If you take your example of Sobers (beyond the fact I don't even believe that he is on a contract) whilst he is a key player no league club is going to spend money on him as he's beyond the age bracket for that being viable. On the other hand, if a player's head can be turned by the offer of an extra hundred quid by another team in this league then 2 questions: 1) Is it really worth having him and 2) What will he give you for the rest of the season if he's on a contract and wants to go. Finn, Holloway and Co are another example of the long list of journeymen non-league players being placed on contracts at this club. Enough.
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Post by bromlee on May 2, 2011 19:25:26 GMT
Contracts are a massive issue for clubs at this level. Dunk is a great example of a player to have, yet clubs looked at him (Charlton & Crawley) but then maybe thought they could get him for nowt at the end od the season anyway when the contract has expired. Really dissapointed with Holloway if i am honest, i think as a shot stopper he is great, but inconsistent when it comes to crosses. It mst be really difficult to guage in pre season who to offer the contracts to and guage who will give the most for the cause. I wsa convinced for the first few months that Finn woud take this league by storm. Shows how much i know!!!
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Post by mikeyh on May 2, 2011 20:19:46 GMT
Agree with what Mash said ,great post ,cant argue with that . regarding contracts most people would not have argued with Wazza getting a contract a proven scorer at this level ,this year he hasnt done it though ,dont know why ,would not suprise me if he ended up dropping to Ryman prem as he aint impressed anyone.Same with Finn . Hope we can get Foderingham back & with Eastleigh going full time maybe Sha La La La La La Peter Adeniyi too. Right now i am just glad season is over .
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Post by mikeyh on May 2, 2011 20:30:35 GMT
Agree with what Mash said ,great post ,cant argue with that . regarding contracts most people would not have argued with Wazza getting a contract a proven scorer at this level ,this year he hasnt done it though ,dont know why ,would not suprise me if he ended up dropping to Ryman prem as he aint impressed anyone.Same with Finn . Hope we can get Foderingham back & with Eastleigh going full time maybe Sha La La La La La Peter Adeniyi too. Right now i am just glad season is over .
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Post by mikeyh on May 2, 2011 20:31:25 GMT
Agree with what Mash said ,great post ,cant argue with that . regarding contracts most people would not have argued with Wazza getting a contract a proven scorer at this level ,this year he hasnt done it though ,dont know why ,would not suprise me if he ended up dropping to Ryman prem as he aint impressed anyone.Same with Finn . Hope we can get Foderingham back & with Eastleigh going full time maybe Sha La La La La La Peter Adeniyi too. Right now i am just glad season is over .
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Post by Swaine's Ginger Cat on May 3, 2011 9:30:39 GMT
I don’t think the 1st team is broke! It was with Macca, when we appeared to have a very good budget & players for the league we were in, but results & performances were clearly well below what they should be. Now, I’d say we’re about where we belong. Maybe we had a good enough team to finish in the play offs, but it was a team effort (+ the brilliance of Foderingham) that gave us the edge early on, & something happened to knock that & took a long time to resolve.
Looking at another thread about alternatives, I’d be a bit disappointed if George came back. I’ve a lot of respect for what he did originally for us, as there’s no doubt he had a low budget compared to many, but kept us competitive for a long time, whilst bringing in a lot of talented players. Pretty sure he brought Jon Goodman with him from Leyton, who we then sold to Millwall a few weeks later for £25000? Didn’t he also bring in Landry Zahona-Oni & Dean Wordsworth & maybe Ernie Cooksey? But those of us who’ve really enjoyed the style of play under Goldberg & Bird might be a bit disappointed, though to be fair, George may well have adopted that style because it was the best chance with the players he had, & sadly that style has outmuscled & beaten us a few times this season. Certainly wouldn’t mind George doing a bit of scouting for us though.
One of the threads on here was talking about who could replace Bird. I’d prefer to stick with him & see what he can do without one hand tied behind his back with certain player’s contracts. If by November we’re looking like we might go down, then do something about it but at least give the guy a chance to succeed or fail fully by himself. Maybe putting Finn on a contract was a big mistake, & yes a few other side’s fans commented on it after he started to lose the will to play, but if we think back to those amazing early performances, I’d have made the same mistake & I’m sure if say Welling had made an approach for him & we found out he wasn’t on contract, we’d all have been going mad at Bromley for not doing so & losing him easily. But Mash was talking some sense about with hindsight, maybe taking that risk in future & just putting the likes of Dunk & other promising young players on contract. I’d be tempted to try someone like Joe Francis if we were to replace Bird given that we couldn’t afford many options without reducing the player budget, but for now, the Bromley van isn’t broken, it just needs a bit of a service.
Latching onto Mikey’s post, I think we’re 3 players short of a play-off team. Foderingham on a long term loan would be one, & given his height & how he never wasted a pass, Peter Adeneyi would be another perfect signing if it’s all change at Eastleigh, though I read that Eastleigh are not going full time as such, just some of their younger players will be.
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pjw
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Post by pjw on May 3, 2011 17:34:50 GMT
While i agree with some of these comments, stating that Bird should have half a season to create his own team is wrong. As the final demonstrated Bird has not got the ability to motivate his team. Yesterday we were an embarrassing shambles, completely devoid of passion, desire, team spirit, formation, effort or any other variable you can judge a team by. As i have posted before, Mr Goldberg had his limitations, he had a good plan A, but lacked the tactical skills at this level when things went wrong. Nobody after watching the appalling standards since Bird took over can honestly argue that he is an improvement, he is out of his depth. He has had half a season to sort the dressing room out and he has failed, dealing with troublesome players is part of the job. Not one player he has bought in looks as if he can play at this level. Yes certain players are not performing, Finn in particular, but we know he can play. As a manager its up to you to get them playing, not put up with sub-standard effort every week, get them playing or get rid of them, simple as that. Why do some people think its so hard to attract a good manager, there must be loads of keen people who would jump at the chance to manage a team with Bromleys facilities at this level. How about advertising and interviewing candidates to get some idea who's out there. If Mr Bird is in charge at the beginning of next season i will be amazed if we avoid relegation, he should do the honorable thing and go. With regards to having a leader at the back, we had a very good one, he was our captain.
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Post by Mash on May 3, 2011 17:47:30 GMT
How do you get rid of a player no one wants?
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bern
New Member
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Post by bern on May 3, 2011 18:52:14 GMT
Bird added: “The end of the season weren’t too bad but it doesn’t paper over the cracks and there’s a clear requirement to improve in every area which is something we have to look at in the summer.”
I must move over to watch the game from the dugout side of the pitch because apparently it didn't look too bad from there. And the comment about putting his stamp on the team we all agree with, trouble is, you have Mr Bird and we don't like it. All Birds signings have failed to impress, but he did manage to get rid of Scarborough Vines and Dolby. It may well have been to free up budget, but there were other options. Dividing the season into three. 1st 14 games 29 Points. 2nd 14 games 16 points. 3rd 14 games 12 points. But apparently Mr Bird thinks we saw an improvement towards the end.
He also says we need to improve in all areas. Correct, and I would suggest management aswell. I saw my first Bromley game 41 years ago and to be honest there have not been many seasons where I have been so happy for it to end. I'm certainly hoping for a fresh start .
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Post by Mash on May 3, 2011 18:58:22 GMT
While i understand your Bird hatred, remember that Goldberg was manager when Vines left and Scarborough. Also Dolby choose to leave of his own accord....
I would assume the improvement towards the ends means the 3 wins a row...as Ive said time and time again, the second half of the season was crap but please dont reinvent history and presume this started under Bird....when we lost 4-0 to ebbsfleet then 7-0 weston (by far the worst game of the season) a certain MG was manager, things went wrong then and never recovered....
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pjw
Junior Member
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Post by pjw on May 3, 2011 20:51:39 GMT
The term "Hatred" is wrong, saying someone is not up to the job and should be sacked is not personal, its an observation from watching a lot of games. How do you get rid of players no one wants ? simple you stop paying them and get rid of them. If they are on contract but not performing or causing problems in the dressing room you get them out of the club and pay them the minimum their contract allows. Surely paying a disruptive player to stay away is better than having trouble makers in the camp. A good team spirit can make up for a lot of deficiencies in a team, we have none.
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Post by bromfan on May 3, 2011 21:10:24 GMT
Actually thought we played OK in first half yesterday, but, then second half showed how much assistance we were getting from the wind in the first 45 minutes. I think it's wrong to say there wasn't any effort - Dunk, Harwood, Harding Daly and a couple of others were putting the effort in. In the end it came down to some pretty shambolic defending, too much farting around with the ball when the two forwards were making some good runs off their markers (though i don't have much confidence they would have done much if they'd received the ball anyway!) and a lack of strength when Dartford started battling 100%.
Also, it doesn't help when one of our so called 'quality players' hammers the ball over the ball from 10 yards with only the goalie to beat when we're just one behind and later on the goalie punches it in his own net.
Too be brutally frank, if we're seriously looking to get in to the play offs next season then almost the entire team needs changing. THe only players who i think are up to it are Harwood, Dunk, Graves, Tutu (as a central defender only - he is not a central midfielder!!) and, if he can only remember now and then that we can't score unless the ball's somewhere near the opposition goal, i would keep Daly.
I know the fans here have a love in with Jerome, and i honestly like him for his loyalty and commitment, but for me he just makes too many mistakes over the season as a whole and breeds panick when the ball arrives at his feet. So, without furter ado here's what we need-
(!)We need a good, big, solid centre half with a big mouth who can control things and help Harwood/Tutu!! (2) Fray doesn't get anywhere near close enough to the forward he is supposed to be marking. He is giving them too much room and time to attack our area and get crosses in etc!! Put Graves back at right back. (3) We need a midfielder who can boss a game and ping the ball around, ala Adeneyi ( as mentioned on other posts). Sorry but Harding, however much effort he puts in, loses control of the ball too often & runs around like a headless chicken too much. (3) We need a good attacking winger (or two) ala Sammy Wood who can geniunally attack the oppo full backs and deliver a good cross to cause some panick in the oppo defence (see Dartford's play yesterday)!! (4) And finally we need a good strong forward (or preferably two) ala Nic McDonnell who isn't scared to get stuck in and put his body/head on the line when the crosses come in ( in the air or on the floor) in the cause of scoring a bloody goal. Something that prima donnas like Ide, McBean and some others we've tried just aren't prepared to do!! And who won't stand/sit there moaning at all and sundry,or walking around sulking for 5 minutes when the oppo defender does his job and tackles them (like McBean, Ide and, sorry to say this, McKenzie as well on too many occasions.
Don't know how Bird or any other manager will manage all this for me but can't wait for the new season to start ( and now i'm back off to the funny farm!!!)
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dazza
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Post by dazza on May 3, 2011 23:43:42 GMT
To be honest i think we all know that Hayden is not up to scratch in this league but can all see that there is every possibilty that he will be the manager next season.My worries over giving him till oct/nov is just where we will be then.If we carry on with the results that we have had since Hayden became manager then we could be in serious relegation trouble and no manager experienced or not,would struggle to get us out of it especially given Haydens signings since he took over.Few have mentioned that Scarbs,Vines,Dolby left when MG was in charge.Think Scarbs was the only one who left under MG. My doubts about Hayden are simple.Having spent enough time on the sidelines beside MG,surely he could see exactly who would be good enough for this league if he has any decent judgement.Signings of the likes of Ide,England,Walsh were not good.Bringing back Harwood and getting Nanami in was.Lovelock was dodgy so for me not a keeper good enough for this level. To many times towards the end of the season,we were turning up without the full quota of subs.What does that say to the reserves/academy players? It stinks of your not good enough to even fill the bench. I have seen some of there games this season and would have to say that there are a few players there who could have come in and done a decent job for us and would have tried. On the subject of trying,alot of what went wrong this season was simple,to many players not giving there all.I stated on our previous forum that for me the season started to go wrong at B Stortford away in the cup.Mooro gave the lads such a bollocking during the warm ups and told them all to stop arguing and concentrate.That was at a time when we were unbeaten and top,so whatever was going on in the camp was clear for all to see there and to be honest,i think that has stayed till the end of season.Look at the results after that. I don't think that we have ever been given the full explanations as to what is going on inside the club.Do we have a right to know all the ins and outs? There's arguments for and against on that issue.I think in general all we really care about is that our beloved Brom is there and always will be. Yes it has an effect on who stays,goes,comes in, but essentially,we will still be there cheering the lads on.We all know Jerry is and always has done a bloody good job in running the club. Everyone is under the assumption that we need 3 players and we are a play off team.Think those must have Haydens glasses on if you realistically think that. Dunk,Harding,Nanami won't be there next season so there's 3 of our better players gone.Holloway i can see going along with Finn,Wazza.Can't see Daly going as he's Haydens man even though i think he should.So what are we left with,Daly,Graves,Tutu,Sobers,Harwood,Leon,Fray.Put 3 to them and you don't have a team unless of course Ide and England stay and Agu in goal.Still short though and that for me is not a play off team. Talk of Foderingham in on a long term loan is nonsense,while he is a good keeper to a point,he made mistakes towards the end of his 1st and 2nd spell that were costly.For me we need to bring Butler and Dolby back.Could never understand why we let either go.If money is an issue,have a look at the lower leagues.There has to be a few unearthed gems as there always is and promote the kids.Give them some game time.Think thats a trick Hayden missed there.Once the play offs were out,we needed to stick the kids in and give them some experience.If money is available then bring Vines back.His workrate is unbelievable and if we are gonna play a striker who is not gonna score alot then he is the man we need.I do actually think he will score goals at this level though to be honest though not as prolific as he's been elsewhere.Another defender as already mentioned that is strong and a talker/organiser.Midfielder who can break things down yet also pass the ball forwards and a couple of strikers and then we may get into the top half.That would be a decent improvement but for gods sake don't think for one minute that we will make the play offs.The league will be even tougher next season.Top half with some of our kids coming through and a bit of a cup run will be a decent season and something to build on.
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Maca
New Member
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Post by Maca on May 5, 2011 9:25:08 GMT
I spoke to management pre season about a possible centre back and a goal keeper....a keeper who has probably won POY now at their BSS Club.
Just look locally...there is an outstanding keeper and an outstanding centre midfield player...both on low wages at a Club that doesn't pay much. Both great lads, 100% effort. But management never look do they? (One POY probably this year, the other POY for last two years and probable runner up this year)
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Post by Swaine's Ginger Cat on May 5, 2011 11:56:33 GMT
What’s the alternative to HB, bearing in mind the issue regarding budgets? Who can replace him & do a better job without taking a chunk of the budget for themselves? I’m not HB’s greatest fan, but I think he’s done an ok job pulling things together after whatever went wrong around the time of Weston. He had to let the apparent top paid player, Vines, go & replaced him eventually with Ide after a month of Hockton - I might have had a different view at the time had I realised the wage thing, but assumed Vines was one of the lower paid players. And on top of that, Holloway was injured off & on (& I believe on contract) plus Finn effectively retired in November & McBean not sure about playing, though in fairness he’s played well recently & it wouldn’t be easy to find a replacement capable of the goal’s he’s scored over the last 3 years. Don’t forget, we tried a talent from lower leagues before, & it didn’t work (Cassius), so I wouldn’t be upset to see McBean next year, but in line with Mash’s thoughts, not on a contract, & it has to be alongside someone like Vines to win the ball & do the dirty work to allow McBean to do what he does better than most. McKenzie does a reasonable job in the Vines role but Ide alongside doesn’t work.
What could HB have done different with Finn? You can’t stop paying someone on contract because they don’t play well. We tried to get rid of McBean but no one was interested. What he could have done is drop Finn sooner. Bringing in the Kingstonian guy was a disaster, but the switch to 3-5-2 did the job. I’m a little disappointed a few academy guys didn’t more of a look in, Jones didn’t look out of his depth the other day, & the fantastic start meant we were safe from relegation early. Maybe a bit more of him rather than Finn would have been better for team spirit & seeing who can make the step up & maybe instead of signing England?. It’s pretty obvious a youngster coming through the ranks will be initially cheaper than a more experienced signing – can’t imagine Dolby’s wages were the same as Patterson.
I still think 3 good players could have changed midtable to playoffs. Even after the chaos we still went & beat Braintree & Ebbsfleet. The better clubs seem to have a commanding presence somewhere on the pitch that we don’t, eg Rainford at Chelmsford & Lorraine at Ebbsfleet. Harwood is emerging as possibly that player, but should have kept him first time round rather than Sharpe. We don’t have a commanding player in midfield - if you could merge the best bits of Tutu & Daly, you’d have that player. Tutu can do it against the weaker sides, but just seems to lack it against the top teams, & once Daly starts missing his passes, he too comes unstuck (eg Welling away).
The other things for me is the captaincy – I just don’t get why Tutu isn’t captain? Maybe it’s just not that big a deal these days & Daly was more guaranteed a starting place?
But let’s see what next year brings. Maybe the £12 entrance will bring in another player? But let’s not get carried away. The ghost of MG is still around the ground in the form of advertising. If it goes elsewhere, Jerry & co might be working even harder to keep the budget close to this year.
We were one win short of a good season for me, early season league glory was great, mid season chaos & shambles was typical Bromley (amazing we only had one change of manager this year!), & just needed Monday to have gone the other way to cap a mostly enjoyable season.
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bern
New Member
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Post by bern on May 5, 2011 17:39:46 GMT
I spoke to management pre season about a possible centre back and a goal keeper....a keeper who has probably won POY now at their BSS Club. Just look locally...there is an outstanding keeper and an outstanding centre midfield player...both on low wages at a Club that doesn't pay much. Both great lads, 100% effort. But management never look do they? (One POY probably this year, the other POY for last two years and probable runner up this year) Go on Gemma spill the beans, who are you talking about?
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pjw
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by pjw on May 6, 2011 9:06:14 GMT
Why does everyone think you have got to pay alot for a good manager? As i posted out before why does the club not ask for applicants and see who is intrested and what ideas they have. At this level the main difference between the top teams are 2 or 3 very good players in key positions and the ability of the manager. I have seen Braintree twice this year, in my opinion they are not that talented, the difference is they have a set system and what appears to be a very good team spirit, both of which we are missing. If we did pay for a good manager i believe he would get a lot more out of our current team team, equally i believe an up and coming hungary manager could also do a better job. What have we got to lose, our current manager is just not up to it, the players he has bought in have been on the whole dreadful and the team a shambles.
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